Chuck Todd, host of NBC’s Meet the Press, aired an interview with Republican Vice-Presidential Candidate Mike Pence Sunday. During the interview, the two discussed Donald Trump’s position on immigration and how those policies would impact the 11 million undocumented immigrants currently in the country. Here is the full transcript of the exchange:
TODD (voice-over): Yesterday I caught up with Trump`s running mate, Governor Mike Pence of Indiana at the Ohio State University just before the Buckeyes` opening game against Bowling Green.
Wasn`t much of a game, by the way. Ohio State won big 77-10.
I asked Pence to explain Trump`s position on deporting undocumented workers in this country. And then I had to ask again — and again and again. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PENCE: It begins with building a wall, border security. It begins with enforcing the laws of this country, removing criminal aliens and removing people who`ve overstayed their visa, ending catch and release, strengthening our border patrol, strengthening immigration and customs enforcement. Doing all of the kinds of things we`ve talked about, the eVerify system for employers in this country.
All the things that we know will bring all the incentives that are built into our economy, all of the ways that illegal immigration has been made possible in this country, all of that will come to an end.
And I think that`s exactly what the American people want to hear today.
And with regard to anyone that remains after all of that is done, I think what you heard Donald Trump say is that we`ll give consideration, working with the Congress, in a new and reformed immigration system, to consider it at that time.
But what the American people want to see today is to establish the borders of this country and enforce the laws of this country. And Donald Trump has created a road map to do that, Chuck.
TODD: Why can`t you definitively say what`s going to happen to these folks?
Because he used to definitively say it. He said there would be — everybody has to leave, even if — quickly, everybody has to leave. And now there is some muddiness to this.
I don`t know how — it is just unclear to me.
Can you clear this up?
PENCE: Well, that may be the way you see it. I`ve been looking at this, some 10,000 people in Arizona last week, it wasn`t the way they see it. As I travel across this country, campaigning with Donald Trump and for Donald Trump, I think people hear him loud and clear. And he`s been completely consistent on this point.
Knowing he —
(CROSSTALK)
PENCE: — center of the national debate.
TODD: But he`s not been consistent on this issue of what to do with the 11 million to 15 million.
PENCE: Well, but there are — there are people in different circumstances in that category. There are people who are criminal aliens in this country. And I think everyone in this country understands that people who are here —
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: — violent crimes.
PENCE: — well, people who are here, who, their first act in this country was violation of the law, but have gone on to criminal activity in America, we want them out. We want them out quickly. Donald Trump has made it very clear that a priority of our administration will be removing criminal aliens.
We`ll also be — we`ll also be finding people who have overstayed their visa; an enormous number of people come to this country legally and then simply overstay their visas because we make no effort to hold them accountable to that or uphold the law.
The simple truth is that what the American people long to see is leadership at the national level that doesn`t myopically focus on the group that you`re focused on. And I know the media loves to focus on —
(CROSSTALK)
PENCE: — focus on the American people —
TODD: — whole bunch of Latino leaders that — quite a few of them have backed away from supporting your ticket because they didn`t like what they heard on Wednesday, because they were told one thing and they felt misled.
One of them even said they felt misled. And one of the major issues has to do with, what about this issue of deportations.
And what are you going to do?
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: It`s not just media.
PENCE: I was campaigning in Idaho and a Mexican American who came to this country legally with his family came up to me, wearing a Trump-Pence shirt, shook my hand and said, “Tell Donald Trump we support him 100 percent.”
I mean, people who have come to this country legally, who stood in line, who played by the rules in the Latino and Hispanic community, just like every other American, long to have a president that says we are a nation of laws and that we`re going to uphold and enforce those laws.
But what I thought was most important about Donald Trump`s speech on Wednesday night in Arizona was different, frankly, Chuck, with all due respect, to the media`s focus on that 11 million or whatever that number is.
He was focused on them more than 300 million people, who are citizens of this country and are here legally in this country, and driving policies in immigration that will work for them, work for the future of our nation.
And but make no mistake about it, I hope — I hope your viewers have a chance to read or to see that speech in Arizona. He also talked about establishing a commission to reform our broken immigration laws, whole cloth, to really — you know, to reform and change the way that people — that people have the ability to come in to this country and do it all in a way that`s in the interest of the American people and in the interest of the long-term future of our country.
TODD: Is it fair to say that you`re not going to answer this question about the 11 million to 15 million — I say just you, but the campaign?
You`re going to leave this as an open question throughout the rest of this campaign?
PENCE: I think Donald Trump`s been completely consistent and I think he did answer.
TODD: And is it an open question of the other…?
I mean, you — but he hasn`t when it comes to — because, on the one hand, he said deportation force and everybody has to leave. I mean, he said it, everybody has to leave. We got to have borders.
Now he`s saying he`s open to doing something different with whoever remains, which would be about half.
PENCE: Well, I think we — I think we really don`t know what that number is or who that is until we do all of the things in the 10-point plan —
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: — to come out of the shadows if you don`t tell them what the penalty will be?
PENCE: Well I think, look, Donald Trump`s made it very, very clear that, in his 10-point plan, we`re going to build a wall, we`re going to enforce the laws of this country. We`re going to end catch and release. We`re going to do all of the things that politicians in both political parties have been talking about for more than a generation.
But he`s also said there`s going to be no amnesty and no path to legalization; if people want to get legalized or want to get right under the color of the law, they need to leave the country.
But he also said —
TODD: — becomes legal in this country without leaving the country?
PENCE: Chuck, he also said —
TODD: This is where we get confused.
PENCE: — he also said it`s not going to be under the existing caps and the existing program but it`s rather going to be under a new and reformed immigration program.
I mean, what you heard Donald Trump call for was border security, building a wall, which actually Hillary Clinton actually said that she was for a physical barrier, I`m told, just a few short years ago.
TODD: What do you do with so-called DREAMers, folks, kids that were brought here; when they came over here, their parents brought them illegally. They were kids.
They`re here now and they`ve gone to public school, they`ve gone — what do you do with them?
PENCE: I think all of these —
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: Is he going to rescind — he said he`s going to rescind the executive order.
PENCE: Yes.
TODD: The president —
PENCE: Of course.
TODD: Well, then, what do you do with them?
PENCE: Well, of course —
TODD: Do they live in the shadows?
PENCE: — well, of course he`s going to rescind, as he said, all of the unconstitutional executive orders. We`ve had in President Obama now, we have a pledge in Hillary Clinton the promise of successive administrations, that essentially legislate from the Oval Office. The Supreme Court turned that back with this administration.
And Donald Trump of course will rescind that. And he won`t be — he won`t, as Hillary Clinton promises, to do executive amnesty.
TODD: How are you going to force an ally to pay for the wall?
I mean, I understand the remittance idea, that you redo the PATRIOT Act.
Is that.?
I mean, that feels like a shakedown.
PENCE: Well, look, we have an enormous economic relationship with Mexico. And this week you saw Donald Trump travel to Mexico City and meet with President Pena Nieto, and start a constructive dialogue, first on issues that they agree on.
But I`m very confident when Donald Trump becomes negotiator in chief, we`re going to sit down with our ally in Mexico, who shares with us —
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: What is their incentive to pay for this wall?
I mean, it — or other than we`re going to withhold money?
That`s the incentive?
PENCE: The United States of America is the most powerful economy on the face of the Earth. Access to our economy is enormously valuable to Mexico and every other country in the world.
As we go into — whether it`s reforming NAFTA, as both of these leaders talked about in their meeting this last week, or a broad range of areas of our relationship. Look, there is — the one thing Donald Trump knows is how to do a deal.
TODD: Let me ask you about being in Utah, by the way.
First of all, you had a campaign in Utah. It`s — and there are a lot of Mormons in particular don`t like the Muslim ban, don`t like even the revised version of it, which is not supposedly targeting religions but targeting regions.
And they come home from missions and talk about trying to help these Syrian refugees. They are very — I`m sure you heard some complaints personally about this.
What did you tell concerned Utah residents about the Muslim ban?
PENCE: I was frankly overwhelmed by the support that I encountered in Utah and later in the day in Idaho. I have to tell you, people are listening to Donald Trump`s agenda to make America great again. And they are responding. And I`ll tell you, particularly in Utah, there is great concern about the Supreme Court of the United States.
TODD: Let`s go back to this Muslim ban.
When you — when he first came out — you came out of it, you basically said it`s unconstitutional. You have defended the new version of this.
Why do you think the new version of this plan, which would target countries or regions rather than religion, why do you think that`s constitutional?
PENCE: Well, first off, the foreign policy of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has resulted in the wider Middle East literally spinning out of control. I mean, we`ve seen Syria imploding into civil war, Libya imploding into civil war.
We have entire countries in that region of the world and territories that have been compromised by terrorism. I think what Donald Trump has said is that we have to immediately suspend immigration from any countries that have been compromised by terrorism.
And I think —
TODD: You can make a case that over 100 countries have been compromised.
I mean, like how do you — how do you identify?
What is a — give me the definition of a country compromised by terrorism.
Is that France?
Is it Germany?
PENCE: Well, let`s start with —
TODD: The United States?
PENCE: Chuck, let`s start with Syria. Hillary Clinton wants to increase Syrian refugees to this country by 550 percent. I don`t — I don`t think any —
TODD: The United Nations is asking the United States to increase its Syrian — by the way, for what it`s worth, it goes from — right now, we`ve accepted 10,000 and they want us to accept 65,000.
PENCE: Sure, well Hillary Clinton wants to increase Syrian refugees to this country by 550 percent.
TODD: Ten to 65, that`s what the U.N. requested.
PENCE: Donald Trump and I believe that we should suspend the Syrian refugee program.
TODD: Completely?
PENCE: And create, working with Arab countries, to create safe zones for people to be able to escape those war-torn areas.
But to continue to allow people into this country when our own Homeland Security, our own FBI says we can`t know for certain who these people are, is putting safety and security of the American people second to the agenda to the U.N. or the liberals in this country. And Donald Trump is just simply not going to do that.
TODD: Quick question about the leadership of the campaign: there`s been some troubling allegations, both with — against Steve Bannon, some things he may have said about Jewish people, some things he may have — happened between him and his wife.
There`s been troubling allegations having to do with Roger Ailes, both of whom are apparently advisors to this campaign.
Are you comfortable with that, considering some of the allegations you`ve read against both of these men?
Are you comfortable with their involvement in this campaign?
PENCE: Well, I promise you, the person leading Donald Trump`s campaign is Donald Trump. You know, he and I talk every day, sometimes several times a day. He is — he is a hands-on leader and a hands-on CEO.
TODD: Appropriate for Roger Ailes to be involved?
PENCE: I trust Donald Trump`s judgment to assemble around this team a group that`s going to help us move forward and be successful and win.
And come on, I mean, Steve Bannon has denied all of those allegations —
TODD: Some of them are in court records.
I mean, look — and I know — look, divorces are divorces. (INAUDIBLE) — but it`s troubling allegations; people are going to look at that and say, all right, Steve Bannon; then you see all these allegations against Roger Ailes.
It just feels as if there`s — that — does he ignore troubling allegations against people that work for him?
PENCE: I trust Donald Trump to assemble a team around him in this campaign as he has and will continue to. You`ll continue to see people added to this campaign.
What`s really remarkable for me, having joined this campaign just six weeks ago, is the — is the fact that this campaign has always been propelled by a movement of the American people. I mean, where in Hillary Clinton, there is 1,000 employees and experts and pollsters and frankly there were people in the Republican primary who had significant apparatus as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: The other big news story this week, of course, besides Trump`s immigration muddle, in a Friday news dump, the FBI took the rare step of releasing notes from its 3.5-hour interview with Hillary Clinton in July about a private server, there was no recording, just notes. We`ll explain that in a little bit.
The top takeaways from the notes: Clinton claims she did not understand basic classification procedures. She didn`t recall any training how to handle classified information.
In fact, Clinton told the FBI that, quote, she “could not recall or could not remember key details more than 3 dozen dimes.”
She even told the FBI she thought the C on an e-mail referred to the order of paragraphs instead of, quote, “the word `confidential,` which is the lowest level of classification.”
Former Secretary of State Colin Powell advised Clinton, according to her, to be, quote, “very careful” in how she used private e-mail.
And the FBI notes show that a computer specialist, whose name was redacted, deleted an archive of Clinton e-mails just weeks after the existence of Clinton`s private server became public in March of 2015.
The FBI said it requested 13 mobile devices which potentially were used to send emails using Clinton`s private e-mail system but Clinton`s law firm could not produce any of them.
One staffer told investigators he destroyed two mobile devices by breaking them in half or hitting them with a hammer.
After Governor Pence and I walked outside, we talked about Clinton`s e- mails. Here is an excerpt.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PENCE: It`s just more evidence that Hillary Clinton is the most dishonest candidate for President of the United States since Richard Nixon.
TODD: That`s a tough charge.
PENCE: It is a tough charge, Chuck, but come on.
TODD: If she were — I`ll just ask you this, though, if she were as dishonest as you claim, then why isn`t the FBI prosecuting?
PENCE: Hillary Clinton, what`s evident from those —
(CROSSTALK)
PENCE: — what`s evident from the notes, what`s evident from all of the revelations over the last several weeks, is that Hillary Clinton operated in such a way to keep her e-mails — and particularly her interactions — while secretary of state with The Clinton Foundation out of the public reach, out of public accountability.
TODD: You guys have higher ground on this issue, on this whole idea of transparency and accountability.
If you guys were as transparent, releasing the tax returns and releasing tax returns, it is — whatever you want to say about the Clintons, we know this because the information has either been dragged out of them or it`s been disclosed.
We don`t have any disclosures. We don`t have your tax returns yet.
PENCE: Donald Trump and I are both going to release our tax returns. I`ll release mine in the next week. Donald Trump will be releasing his tax returns at the completion of an audit.
But the issue here is not —
TODD: But that won`t be before the election.
PENCE: — the issue here is, well, we`ll see.
TODD: OK.
PENCE: The issue here is not one of information that was not available or that the incomprehensible decision that she made as secretary of state and to have a private server in her home, 11 different BlackBerrys and mobile devices, but really rather it`s all — goes to the question of why did she do that.
And the other e-mails that have come out in the last several weeks really give evidence to the fact that it was all in an effort to paper over and conceal a pay-to-play process that was underway while she was secretary of state.
TODD: Let me ask you this, in the spirit of transparency, you`ve sealed your congressional record, where they`re not going to be opened up at the university until either until after you`re (INAUDIBLE).
Are you going to rescind that order and release all of that information now before the election?
PENCE: Well, we`ll certainly look at it. It`s the first time I`ve been asked to do that. I — you know, I truly to believe in the public`s right to know and, frankly, now, because —
TODD: You would err on the side of transparency?
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: When in doubt, err on the side of transparency?
PENCE: You know me, Chuck. That`s always been my policy. I believe in a free and independent press and accountability. And I give a lot of credit, I give a lot of credit to efforts in the media and independent organizations that, to your point, have brought this information into the light by The Clinton Foundation.
I mean, you know, the revelations in this FBI interview, I truly do believe, give evidence to the fact that Hillary Clinton is the most dishonest candidate for President of the United States since Richard Nixon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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